Episode 331-From Isolation to Inclusion: A Mother’s Policy Path on Autism, Advocacy, and Work with Carol Waldman

The conversation starts with a memory many families know too well: an early checkup, a handful of red flags, and years of whispered support plans. From there, we move into motion—Carol Waldman shares how a lonely path through therapies and IEPs grew into public advocacy, culminating in a unanimous San Diego measure to expand training and hiring for neurodiverse adults. Along the way, we unpack what real inclusion looks like: a high school three-pointer that turned tokenism into belonging, a faith community that gave meaningful roles instead of sidelined programs, and a DC internship that paired mentorship with responsibility.

We talk plainly about autism’s spotlight: awareness is up, but understanding often lags behind. Carol challenges the “cause vs. cure” narrative and makes a case for funding supports that change daily life—teacher training, sensory-aware classrooms, transition programs, and workplaces designed for different minds. She walks us through Andrew’s journey—pushing past lowered expectations, building confidence, navigating a pandemic quarantine alone, joining a new city’s social fabric, and learning the gritty skills of networking and persistence. These are not headline moments; they’re the scaffolds of independence.

If you’re an educator, you’ll hear concrete ways to reframe goals without shrinking expectations. If you’re an employer or HR leader, you’ll get a blueprint for inclusive job design, mentorship, and transparent communication. And if you’re a policymaker or advocate, you’ll see why data-backed programs and accountability in public hiring matter more than press releases. Most of all, you’ll feel the throughline: do not underestimate neurodiverse potential. Expect growth, provide tools, and watch confidence turn opportunity into outcome.

Subscribe, share this conversation with someone who needs it, and leave a review with one change you want to see in schools or workplaces. Your ideas help us push this movement from visibility to real access.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome & Carol’s Background
• 2:45 Early Signs, Diagnosis, and Silence
• 5:20 Autism in the Spotlight: Hopes and Risks
• 7:50 Fund Supports, Not “Cures”
• 10:15 Employment, Policy, and San Diego Win
• 13:20 Self-Advocacy and Being Heard
• 16:20 Confidence, Inclusion, and Sports
• 19:15 Faith Community as True Inclusion
• 21:00 DC Internships and Job Hunt
• 24:00 Independence, Resilience, and Travel
• 26:00 High School, Expectations, and Advocacy
• 28:10 Policy Ambitions and Community

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:01

Hi, thanks for joining the SJ Child show today. I'm so excited to have Carol Waldman here. Uh, her son was just recently in the 1 in 31 summit on the advocates panel, and it's so beautiful to see advocates find their comfortable space and really like find their voice and speak up for themselves. And kind of like Carol had said, just you learn something from every single person that comes on and shares. Um, and I'm so happy to have you on here today to get to know you a little bit better. And um, we miss you uh being not being able to be there, but we're so glad that you know you joined and um cheered everyone on, and it means so, so much. So thank you so much for being here today. Oh, Sarah, thank you for having me. It's exciting, and I am thrilled to learn more about you. I did do a little bit of, you know, a little chat GPT, give me some talking points um with Miss Carol. And so I'm really excited to hear about um more about your advocacy and policy works and and things to that you're doing. And I just can't imagine the changes that you are making, have seen, or an undertaking. So um before we get started, please give our audience an introduction, let us know a little bit about yourself and we'll get started.

SPEAKER_01: 1:37

Sure. Um, I'm Carol Waldman. I'm a mom of three kids. Actually, they're young adults now, um, 23, um, uh, 21 and 18. Um, my professional background is working in politics. Um, I've spent many years working at the local, um, state, and federal level for elected officials and on numerous campaigns. Um, and I'm deeply compass uh passionate about neurodiversity because my own son, Andrew, who's 23, was diagnosed on the autism spectrum at around age five.

SPEAKER_00: 2:18

And that's a a pretty usual, I don't know, maybe for boys, right? Um, age that that they sometimes get diagnosed. Um, what have you seen in kind of the growth of diagnosis being now have had it for many years till today? Like, what do you see in the community now?

SPEAKER_01: 2:45

Well, you know, it's interesting when Andrew was diagnosed, it was in LA, and he had it started out when he went to his three-year-old doctor's appointment and he wasn't jumping and wasn't answering questions. And when he was assessed by a developmental pediatrician, she says, Oh, you know, he has significant delays in gross motor and fly motor skills, um, a little bit in speech, um, but but no other clear diagnosis of anything. And so in preschool, too, he um he he was showing signs of playing by himself and you know, repetitive behaviors. Ultimately, um, we had to get an aid, and then at some point around five, yeah, into the elementary school years is when they actually diagnosed him um Asperger's being on the autism spectrum. Um one of the things back then, too, is we didn't talk about it. People didn't, even in the school setting, you know, maybe it was mentioned in the initial IEP, but after that, the word autism wasn't in the vocabulary. And all throughout these years, we didn't talk about it among our amongst our peers and friends. So I felt like the journey was so different, so lonely with all these like therapies and social groups and um private coaches, and I very isolating. But I think today it's just I I mean, I think it people will talk about it more, but I don't know, you know, how it is when they're younger, but it's just neurodiversity is sort of something people know about, whereas before no one ever used that word.

SPEAKER_00: 4:33

And how do you feel now, kind of in this era where in this last you know, eight, six to eight months, the word autism is now in the mind and ears and kind of more than ever before across the whole nation, whether good or bad, the word autism is still there where it was never before. And how do you think, like, what do you think about that and how we can shift and and change that now?

SPEAKER_01: 5:09

Well, I mean, I'm glad that it is, you know, it is talked about, however, there's so much um lack of understanding of what because we really don't know what really causes it. And I think there's a lot of information that is not necessarily true. And I think that um I just think that the way they had portrayed it as, you know, oh, we're gonna find a cure for it. I just think I think it's been around for so many years. And I just think that well, like again, while I'm glad that people know the term autism, what that means. I just think that there just has to be a better understanding and where we should be researching, you know, more on programs versus the cause, because um these kids need more support in schools, and and what also scaries with the the government and the department of education and and the resources that we need at the schools, um that's where we need them.

SPEAKER_00: 6:20

100%. And you know, I would love to see. Um, I couldn't agree more that the education behind the word now needs to be fueled into those minds because that's exactly what's missing. And there's a quote I love to use, and that's a little bit of knowledge turns fear into understanding. And that's what they need. They just need because we're just at like the tip of the iceberg, we're just showing they just understand this like tiny little little bit when there's this huge complex version of what is to be seen. Um, and I really, in my non-medical, non-scientific professional opinion, really in my heart of hearts, feel like uh the evolution of the human brain is what we're seeing. And I think that at some point, it would be really lovely to have this wider kind of um grace and understanding that human experiences are never the same. It's always different for every single person. And I think that it's it just like you said, we need to offer more supports and how we can support these wide range of uh neurotypes and learning types so that we can really give access to this community who has been locked away for better terms, you know, um from access of so many things for so long. And I'm just really proud of the work you're doing and and thank goodness we have somebody with you know good intentions behind those things to help move things forward.

SPEAKER_01: 8:21

Thanks. You know, one of the um things we did most recently, 20 seems like a most recently, but it's like maybe 2022. Andrew and I went to the Board of San Diego Board of Supervisors and I actually spoke on behalf of legislation that would um require them to open the doors uh for work and training for neurodiverse employees. And it it unanimously passed, and it was just so great. And that's um another area since Andrew's 23. What you know, he wants to work, he wants to possibly go to law school, he's interested in policy, and uh finding, you know, him finding a job and finding a workplace that supports his needs um is just so important. And so I've been exploring more in that area.

SPEAKER_00: 9:15

So I love that. And that's what we do as I think that people like us, women and moms like us, who are fueled by our kiddos' need to and want to succeed and opportunities that they deserve to have in the world. Um, it creates so much. There's there's not enough thank yous out there for moms that do the work um to help, and and it's so lovely that he is now advocating for himself. I mean, um it was great to hear him say, like, sometimes people didn't listen to me. And I was like, that's exactly what people need to hear, Andrew. That's the the world needs to hear that. They need to hear that you did not feel listened to, you felt put aside and things like that. I know that was heartbreaking. I'm so sorry, like the not, you know, just shine a light. But he was so brave to say that, and then to just be like, and you're like, we're like, we are listening, we are on pins and needles, like everyone is listening now. And I hope he knew that and felt that. And um, moving forward, like everyone will see that and just know that like this is a kid who sees what's going on, uh, just like the so many of them, and aren't being aren't being listened to, aren't being respected as they deserve to be in the workplace. Um, so this is gonna set some change ahead for the community. And I love the fact that we had, you know, people like TAC, the from Colorado, and the kind of oversight that he was able to have of maybe the trades that they were missing that they now want to get more access to have and to teach their, you know, teaching autistic community trades. Like that's a fantastic program. I'm just so proud of them. So it's exciting to see all of these new collaborations that can come about, opportunities. But um, Andrew has a bright future, and I have no doubt for him that um he'll not only go after what he wants, but now maybe advocate for himself in ways that he never has before, and realize that he has us as a community to totally back him and support him and just whatever he needs.

SPEAKER_01: 11:52

So good to hear. It is so good to hear. And, you know, when he was speaking at the um on the panel, you know, I thought about his high school years and how, you know, I I remember in his junior year, he wanted to take more AP classes. And and there was this like, oh, Andrew, you know, one one's enough, you know, you could probably just do one. And that was part of the the whole IEP process and not wanting to overwhelm him. Yeah. Um, but then at the same time, we really encourage him to play basketball. And he wasn't the best on the team, but he under he was so um dedicated and devoted that in the senior year, um they put him on the varsity basketball team. And it was sort of the understanding that you would um you would play only if they're winning or they're losing, but it wouldn't really, he wouldn't really affect the game. And he was hesitant about that. But I said, you know, it's good, you'll be social, you'll practice, you'll get your exercise. So one night he goes out there and they let him play and he makes it three-pointer, and um, the crowd goes wild. Like everybody starts to do the wave, the um whole ASB like section is screaming, all the the the parents, and everybody just people start running down and hugging him and finding him. And it goes on Max Preps, um, which is like a sports app that a lot of people like to watch, and it goes viral. And you know, his confidence, you know, by just including him into this sport, this sword, and he was just this new person on campus, you know, and I just made me think about like like the highlights, right? There were a lot of lows, and then there's a lot of there's highlights too, but that's what you want.

SPEAKER_00: 13:48

Oh, isn't that the truth? Um like I've gotta collect myself here. It's so it's so true, you know. Seeing DJ um a blossom in this new time of the Special Olympics, and like having people embrace him and really just want him to be a part of it, like I see a different part of him like evolving, and it is so wonderful, and it's every parent's dream in this state or journey on this, you know, and that that happens that they're accepted and that people want to make friends with them and they want to make friends with others, and it's been something that hasn't been a regular thing here for us. And oh, it's just it it's kind of like all of the flowers that I've planted this year. I've never been a gardener and I love houseplants, but I've never planted outside, and I can go out and see more colors than I've ever seen before, and it's happening with him too, so it's kind of lovely, you know, that it's yeah, it does.

SPEAKER_01: 15:01

I and I think you know, the things that we get so excited about, like as parents, um, it's the little things that that that can be such milestones for us. Um, I think with Andrew, you know, I was always trying to like just get get to be average, right? But you know, we all just want, you know, we want our kids to thy to thrive, but I just wanted him to fit in. Yeah. Um, one of the um um topics, you know, with culture and um that you've you've I've heard you talk about with Andrew, it's interesting because our temple was really, really uh is very great with inclusivity. And we're fortunate to have um our advisor, and I think you've met him, Craig Parks. Oh, yeah. He's the music person, but he was also the teen advisor. And fortunately, Andrew uh, you know, took classes from him. He was there all along the way, and Andrew got to be Andrew is bar mitzfoot. Andrew uh went to like religious school, a teen journey program. He also um was on the board of the youth group and he was encouraged to run for office. He worked at the camp Craig started, he was a camper, then a counselor. Somebody who understands, right? Because Craig has a a young adult now um with special needs, and so that made such a big difference, right? And just wow, that that uh forever grateful. And the temple still is wonderful, you know. It's just um, you know, it's really very inclusive, and so that was something that was wonderful for us.

SPEAKER_00: 16:54

And how is he finding his way now in Washington, D.C.? Can we can we talk touch on that? Is that okay?

SPEAKER_01: 17:00

Or no, no, you know, so he started out in DC doing an internship. He worked, so there's this company, and I found this on the internet um called Broad Futures, and it's a program that mentors young neurodiverse adults um in jobs in Washington, D.C. area. And so he went out there and he worked, they got him an internship at the Cormac Group, which is um a legislative and bipartisan lobbying type firm, and he loved it. And he would meet with like the people from Broad Features once a week. Um, and they were great. And so that was three months, and then it ended, and now you know, he's on his own trying to find a job, and that's where it's just you know, it could be the climate, it's just it's just hard to find a work. I mean, broad features did what they were supposed to do, and then now he's on his own. Um, so it's it's it is hard. It is hard. He's but he's so persistent and interviewing and networking that I think, wow, if he had just been handed a job, he would not be acquiring these skills. Yeah, he's working with someone who I know you've mentioned Jacob um Levy, Jacob sponsored uh summit.

SPEAKER_00: 18:24

In fact, yeah, that's great. I it's one of them all, Carol.

SPEAKER_01: 18:28

No, I found him like on LinkedIn, like nobody told me about these people. I'm like, okay, let's try this out. And you know, I communicated, I reached out to him and communicated. I'm like, can you help Andrew? He's like, I definitely. So he has been working with Andrew on his LinkedIn and reaching out, and he's so resourceful. And so that's where we are. We'll see. Because I'm we're supporting Andrew, and at some point, you know, he's also has to figure out like maybe there's a different place to live, or maybe he can find a job there. But um so yeah, I think it's still it's unsettling for me because I just want him to have, you know, find something a job, and then no, you know, we just want them to be independent. Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 19:14

Well, I have a feeling we know all the right people to talk to. So I think that there's really great things in line for for Andrew. I'm excited. And he's open up in locations, it doesn't have to be DC.

SPEAKER_01: 19:29

I think he just you know, I said, Do you want to come to San Diego? No, like I think he wants his own city, he's really good. Like at when he was in DC, he's like, Oh, I tried, I joined a pickleball league. Well, he's never played pickleball in his life before. Um I love that also prior to that. I have to say he took a trip with a a travel group, not knowing anybody, and he went to Australia. I mean, he didn't go to Australia, he's with the Australians, but he went to Europe like a couple of summers ago.

SPEAKER_00: 19:57

He just he's brave, very brave. Oh my gosh, that's amazing. And you're brave too, okay. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 20:08

I led him to go to Wisconsin, and it was sort of at the end of COVID. And um, well, not really then, it was the fall of 2020, and he actually um uh was in the dorm. And then in February that year, he actually got COVID. And first he was exposed to COVID, then they told him he had to live in a hotel and they took him to a hotel, and he was there for 14 days, and he had to stay in the hotel. He wasn't allowed to leave the room. And um at that point, I'm like, okay, I'm done being brave. But then I said, Okay, well, let's get all relatives, friends, and we're just gonna call him and support him. And he's like, he called me, he's like, Can I order some um did he love it? He did, he's like, Can I order some items from Walmart? You know, because I am sick, and you know, and he had his own TV and own bathroom. So he actually he actually was fine. I mean, after he got over having COVID, but like of course, you know. It just made me think like I was so worried about his mental health, like, oh my god, like what do you do? You're all the way in Wisconsin. He's like, oh, you know, he's like, he ordered foods, a razor, whatever he needed.

SPEAKER_00: 21:28

Like I love that. I just love that. I think that they're so lucky, we're so blessed that they're so lucky not to have the whatever it is in our minds that makes us worry or judge ourselves or things like that. Like I know DJ doesn't have that part of uh, I don't even know what part of the mind that is, but I think you know what I'm talking about. I think it's so lovely, it's just like refreshing and and beautiful, and that's why I love to invite all of these amazing people because so many of them just have this innocent grace and fierce, you know, persistence for life and for just like being the best person they can be. And those are the kind of people I want to surround myself with all the time. I'm so sorry, I'm so emotional. This one, Carol. But it it is just so touching, and I'm really just really grateful that we got to do this.

SPEAKER_01: 22:34

Yeah, you know, I I have to say though, they changed so much because when he was in elementary school or even middle school, how would I couldn't have told you he was gonna go off to University of Wisconsin? You know, I and then in high school, even, you know, you just don't know. Um, I just knew to advocate for him because had I not, even with the great public school that we were in, you know, there's still this question, well, should he graduate? Should he like what's your plan for him? Like, what? Have to have a plan? Of course he's gonna graduate. But you realize you do like as a parent, you had to, and and it really, you know, I have two other kids, so I was like, oh my God, this is like full-time plus job. Yeah. But I want to empower other parents too, because I've been there and um, you know, I'm just so grateful the supports I've had, but it was also hard, you know. It's and now I'm in this, you know, journey of like this next chapter in our life, and it's it's hard. And yet I I know that there'll be great things. I think he's gonna do great things, and I think I'll be able to help others at some with this process as well.

SPEAKER_00: 23:54

Yeah, he already has. I mean, the amount of people that have already seen the summit and watched the advocate panel, like he already inspired others, he's already made changes and like changed lives. Yeah, absolutely. And mine, you know, like he literally, I'm so grateful to have you guys as new connections. And um I think it's just so special that we can have, and I've said this in the past on a lot of different podcasts, but I think it's so important that we take time to um nurture relationships with those that are come before us at the same time, kind of that at the same journey we're at, and the people who will come behind us or whatever you want to call it, and then help them and be um able to reach your hand out to them because it's it's so different for each family, but the the thing that is all the same is that you only feel isolated until you know that you have this community, and then that goes away and you just feel love from then on out. So, and I hope that you know you found that in your own community with your own and with us now here.

SPEAKER_01: 25:19

Yeah, no, I mean, you know, yeah, I still need it, and and yeah, I I also I mean, my dream would like I'd love to see a neurodiverse placement agency. I would love to see so much more out there. I'm like, oh, can I start that? You know, you know, how do I do this? And and also with my background in policy, and you know, I I'm a delegate and uh on the Democratic Central Committee, so I'm so active in politics. I want to, you know, be up there when legislation or or make a difference in legislation um as well. So so I'm in this, you know, and I love meeting people outside of California too, because we this is just great, you know, meeting and and then I'd like to go more to some of the you know in-person type events as well. And I love all the virtual summits, but yeah, but connecting is really important because we can help each other, and I just feel like we need it.

SPEAKER_00: 26:22

Absolutely. Well, I invite you to return as a guest in the future to, you know, we can dive deeper into more policy talk and things and and but it was so nice to get to know you today on a personal level and um and really talk about you know your journey with Andrew and just so grateful for um all the opportunities that you provided for him and how strong and and resilient and amazing, what an amazing gentleman he he is today. Thanks, Sarah. I enjoyed talking to you too. I know it's so great. I would love to stay in touch. Um, I'm sure that our we could have some really great deep conversations about so many things. Um is there uh social media or anywhere that you uh connect with people that you want people to go follow that if they have questions that they can reach out to you on email or anything like that?

SPEAKER_01: 27:23

Sure. Um I'm on LinkedIn. Great. Um and I'm on and I can send that information to you, LinkedIn and um Facebook and Instagram. Um working on a Facebook page or a website. I'm working on a website right now because I love that. Want to share some of the I've been on a couple other podcasts, so I want to share these podcasts too. Um and then email. I can give my email.

SPEAKER_00: 27:52

It's I can give it now, or I can yeah, I can just plug it into the show notes, that'd be perfect. And then you can just and I already have it actually. If you want to give me another one, so that's perfect. Um, yeah, I love that. Thank you so much. Any last um advice or um words just for the week or anything you'd like to share?

SPEAKER_01: 28:14

Uh let me see. Um, I just I think one of the things I just that came to my mind was just don't underestimate your child or sibling or you know, whoever is neurodiverse. Just there there's so much that can be done and and that the person can do. Uh it's not the same for everybody, but let them shoot for the stars.

SPEAKER_00: 28:43

Isn't that the truth? And I love that little saying too. If you if you shoot for the moon, you if you don't reach the moon, you can land in the stars, something like that, right? Shoot for the moon. Yeah, yeah. It's so cute, but agreed, yes, and um especially being brave enough to you know a let to allow your neurodiverse child to try new things, to be independent, to have some more independent opportunities. Um, I know it's hard and tricky, but there are wonderful groups out there, amazing resources. Please reach out if you're ever questioning or needing help with any of those types of things. Reach out to me. And and please, if you're interested in in connecting with Carol to um, please reach out to her and follow her as well. Um, thank you so much. I look forward to staying in touch, and I'm I'm excited to see what happens um in the future for everyone involved. Thanks, Sarah.